Interviewing The Punk Rock Counselor Dr. John Delony - Your Brain Isn’t Broken
While we talked about music, mental health, and anxiety, I realized my brain isn’t broken, and yours isn’t either.
Punk Rock, mosh pits, and mental health weren’t in the same conversation until the tattooed, guitar-shredding Dr. John Delony Show hit the scene. With his DIY punk rock ethos, he’s leading the charge on several fronts in battling America’s mental health crisis. Dr. John Delony’s podcast is dominating the charts, and his book, Building A Non-Anxious Life, has become a best-seller for its fresh perspective on managing anxiety.
Stumbling upon Dr. Delony's podcast was a serendipitous moment for me. Initially skeptical, his raw honesty, compassion, and love for music, guitars, and punk rock resonated deeply. In that instant, I felt a connection rooted in his unique on-air approach and his obsession with music. I decided to reach out to this “punk rock counselor” who had managed to break through my cynicism to see what he was all about.
A few weeks later, we found ourselves engaged in a stimulating conversation over the phone. My curiosity was piqued; I wanted to unravel how music had woven itself into the fabric of his life and how it had shaped the perspectives he was sharing with millions of listeners.
During the conversation, we explored:
His passion for music and growing up in the Houston, TX punk scene.
The benefits of music on our mental health.
Struggling with mental illness and its vicious grip.
His opinions on cannabis, social media, and the wave of loneliness, depression, and anxiety flooding America.
While chatting about music and mental health, I unexpectedly found myself searching for clarity in a constantly changing world. With Dr. John, I realized that my brain isn’t broken, and yours isn’t either.
A Headbangers Ball
I glanced at my phone. It was 12:59 p.m. I made sure my notes were in order and settled into my seat. Right on the dot at 1:00 p.m., my phone buzzed to life. Answering, I recognized John’s familiar voice. “Hey, Daniel, it’s John.” Punctuality, a trait he humorously admits he lacks, apparently had been momentarily reined in that day. We chatted briefly as we got to know each other and connected as fellow musicians.
Music and playing the guitar have been significant parts of John’s life since he was a kid. As we eased into our conversation, he pinpointed a moment suspended in time that changed everything for him.
John: There was a show called Headbangers Ball that came out on MTV, and as long as I live, I have a before-and-after moment — it was a music video of Walk by Pantera, and I remember me and my buddy being frozen in time. I remember pointing and saying, ‘That’s what I want to do!’
But with all things Dr. John Delony, there’s also a beautiful dichotomy to every story.
John: One day in college, my girlfriend, now my wife, knew I would only go to concerts if there were mosh pits, but she took me to see a band called Caedmon’s Call, and Bebo Norman opened up the show. I remember he walked out, and there was a whole theater packed, and that guy walked out with just an acoustic guitar and silenced the room. I thought, Oh! That’s the same power that Pantera has! This guy just took over an entire room with just a guitar. I wanted to learn to do that!
And I’ve never stopped playing guitar.
Nowadays, the nerd side of me knows the neuroscience behind the importance of music and how important the communication aspect of it is, both personally and interpersonally. It’s one of the happiest things that I love, love, love.
As we continued talking music and the vital intricacies between Fender guitars versus Gibson (he prefers Gibson) and our dream rigs (John’s — a Les Paul played through an Orange Amp), I turned the discussion to music cutbacks in public education. Frustrated, he didn’t mince words.
John: It’s a disaster. An absolute disaster. Here’s the thing that’s so tragic: music is hard! It’s where you sit down with a box of wood and some strings and create something that brings together an auditorium of 10,000 people. It’s like Hogwarts; it’s like learning magic, it’s so powerful, and it’s the worst! You’re building up calluses, learning rhythms, learning key signatures — it’s the worst. And I think we’ve extracted that from kids. Kids who practice and play instruments develop different brains. Whether joining a choir or an orchestra or playing in some awful middle school rock ’n’ roll band, you learned teamwork and performance.
Dr. John isn’t the only one in the mental health community alarmed by the massive cutbacks in music education and their long-term effects.
John: Those who have kids and work in the mental health community are especially concerned about neurodevelopment and character development. I don’t know a person in the mental health profession who doesn’t require their kids to learn an instrument.
When people ask me what I do with my kids, I’m not a dogmatic parent, but I do make them play an instrument. I still want my kids to follow their noses, come up with wild things, and have adventures, but I make them play an instrument, period.
As we talked about our kids, their hobbies, and what it’s like to be dads in this digital world, we found ourselves broaching a contentious topic: the impact of social media on young minds.
All The Lonely People
John erupted in laughter after I rhetorically remarked, “Can you imagine if we had smartphones when we were growing up?” We agreed it wouldn’t have been in our best interests as two knuckleheaded teenagers. Despite my lighthearted comment, the effects of social media are no laughing matter. Protecting kids from predators is priority number one, but there’s an entire variety of mental health issues surrounding social media with far-reaching consequences.
John: What you’re handing them [smartphones] is a workaround to true dopamine. The truest path to healthy dopamine is I have to work hard, and my body has to anticipate the reward on the backend.
If I hand a kid a phone, I bypass all relational “hardware,” romantic and intimate “hardware,” managing boredom, and how to learn something. If I hand them “the world,” I’m taking away their vegetables and steak — their healthy food — and handing them cookies and saying, ‘Go out into the world!’ And it’s going to kill them.
His voice carried a deep sadness as he spoke, and his sorrowful tone continued after I asked what aspect of his show initially caught him off guard. He replied so quietly that I double-checked my phone’s volume.
John: I did not understand just how lonely people really are. It is devastating — just catastrophic. It’s hard for me. I get choked up thinking about it. I knew that intellectually, but man, I didn’t realize how pervasive and awful it was. That surprised me.
However, there’s a pleasant surprise. I continue to believe that most people want to do something better and different with their lives. They know the world has changed and don’t have a roadmap of what that change looks like. They have a million TikTok people and Instagram people giving them fourteen seconds of ‘you should be doing this!’ And you end up paralyzed. But I continue to be optimistic. With the right path and the right set of lights out in the darkness with hope, maybe we got a shot.
As he finished, I thought, what’s causing this universal wave of loneliness, and is there a solution?
John: I don’t think people have the skills. This is just a skill set, not a character issue. We don’t know how to do it.
We have outsourced all our relationships to apps and technology, and I think there’s a physiological consequence. We all know that 70 to 90 percent of communication is nonverbal, and we’ve all gone nonverbal. Nowadays, most of our communication is just text messages.
I can message my wife all day and tell her that I love her, but her body doesn’t feel the sense of safety, security, and love compared to when I walk in the door and hold her face for a beat and say, ‘I’m so glad you’re my wife. I love you.’ We don’t do that anymore; we blow by them saying, ‘I already told you I love you a hundred times today!’
We’re great comanagers of our houses, friendships, neighbors, and little league teams, and our bodies are dying. Our bodies are literally starving for human connection. We have transitioned to a state where we communicate but don’t connect. We transmit information back and forth, ‘I love you. I hate you.’
Nowadays, you even get fired by email from some faceless H.R. person! It’s madness! We have outsourced core human interactions to zeros and ones, and our bodies are starving.
Music & Anxiety: Another State of Mind
I wanted to learn more about his connection with music, guitar, and his time in the Houston punk rock scene. These experiences have shaped his life and also serve as his coping mechanism for stress and anxiety. So, when I asked him about it, his voice lit up with excitement. “Nobody has ever asked me that before!”
John: Music is just one of those things that brings me joy regularly. A few years ago, I saw a band called Turnstile, and they blew my mind. I was in a human blender of a mosh-pit and thought, ‘I’m too old for this!’ But I knew I would never see Turnstile in a small venue again. The next time I saw them, they were opening for Blink-182. The funny thing is, they were all playing Jackson guitars, like straight-up ‘80s-metal Jackson guitars; I thought it was hilarious.
So, my band had a giant show coming up, and I went to Guitar Center and bought the most obnoxious pink-colored Jackson. I fell in love with it. As far as guitar amps go, I love Marshall, but if I had to pick one rig, it would be a Gibson Les Paul through an Orange Rockerverb amp.
But what are the specific benefits of music for Dr. John, who has dedicated his life to helping others during challenging times?
John: Music can be a background that calms your entire nervous system. It also has a participatory aspect. When I’m in my house and after my kids are asleep, I get my guitar out and learn a guitar solo for no reason. I’ll never play it in front of anybody, but I want to know if I can do it.
I buy two vinyl albums every month, and I take the selection comically seriously — I way overthink it. But they mean something to me. These are the records that are going to curate my kid’s lives. These records are the soundtrack to their childhood, and I know that sounds silly, but when they think about the house they grew up in, I want them to smile and remember that Dad had that crazy music going. All of that is the power of music. It’s so important to me.
However, regarding the bands and musical experiences that shaped Dr. Delony, all roads lead back to Texas.
John: If I had to go back and name the bands that shaped me, there was a band from Denton, Texas, called Tripping Daisy; they greatly influenced me. Tim Delaughter of Tripping Daisy went on to form Polyphonic Spree. I could listen to them all day. When I was growing up, it was bands like 30 Foot Fall, all those old punk bands. They’re just chaos and mess.
I’m a big fan of Social Distortion and Mike Ness’s guitar tone. I’m also a huge Avett Brothers fan; they’re just masterful writers and performers.
Dr. John would know since he was part of the local Houston, Texas, punk rock scene, along with his high school punk rock band and friends.
John: I started going to downtown Houston, and Fitzgerald’s was where we would always go — that’s where we lived, man. We would go and watch 30 Foot Fall and see all these legendary punk rock bands.
As we switched gears and talked about singer-songwriters like Ani DiFranco and Damien Rice, I realized his publisher would appreciate it if I asked about his newest book instead of only discussing guitars for over an hour.
When inquiring about the book’s background, I did not anticipate a virtual admission of guilt by Dr. John.
He penned Building a Non-Anxious because he had struggled with severe anxiety that had impacted his life, family, and marriage. He worked hard to rebuild his life and believed he had succeeded, but he was in denial.
John: I was the guy who had this anxiety-induced breakdown and then solved it all, and I thought I should lecture all of America on how they should be living their lives. Then, halfway through writing the book, I realized I was not living this.
It was a very humbling ‘alt., control, delete.’ I went back to square one.
Instead of lecturing people about what anxiety is and what you should do, it was me pulling up a seat at the bar and saying, ‘Dude, I need help too.’ It was a very personal venture. And I don’t think the world needs another lecture.
Before asking my next question, he noticed the sound of me shuffling my notes and said, “Hey man, forget the talking points. Ask what you really want to ask. Let’s keep going down the rabbit hole like before!”
How rare is that? Laughing, I said, “Okay!” and decided to focus on an area where he had received a bit of public pushback.
Broken Brains
Occasionally, Dr. John has received criticism with claims that he “minimizes” the pharmacological side of treating and managing various anxiety disorders.
In his book, as well as on his podcast, he admits that he had been ignoring his mental alarms for a long time, and as a result, he had to take prescription medication for a period of his life. However, he also acknowledges that the medication was effective in helping reduce the blaring alarm bell of anxiety so that he could get to the therapist’s office and start the difficult work of rebuilding himself.
Considering the risk of dependency that certain anti-anxiety medications pose, leading to potential addiction, an increasing number of individuals are turning to alternatives such as cannabis. I wanted to inquire about Dr. John’s perspective on cannabis.
John: As it gets legalized, if it’s used as the solution to anxiety, it’s a disaster, period. If it’s used as a bridge to get you from point ‘A’ to a therapist’s office so you can do the work that your body needs in order to stop the constant mental alarm systems, then maybe that would be a reason.
Cannabis’ medicinal use was sold out of the gate, not by scientists but by people trying to make money off of it. It was sold as ‘It will fix your broken brain.’
I disagree with the notion that individuals with anxiety have “broken brains.” People with anxiety don’t inherently have broken brains. Their brains are working incredibly. But no amount of ‘duct tape’ over the alarm system will solve anxiety.
Saying Goodbye to Labels
Living with anxiety or any mental health issue can be challenging, even with therapy and medication. Surrendering to labels can define your self-identity. Knowing “your brain is not broken” is empowering, and it takes courage to ask for help.
The Dr. John Delony Show has been that first step for thousands of brave people who have become sick of it all and are ready to build something new.
Social media isn’t entirely negative. It connects people and can even save lives. This is exactly what Dr. John strives to do. Despite his increasing fame and popularity, Dr. John refuses to compromise his values for ratings; just like his punk rock heroes, he’s no sell-out.
Check out his best-selling book Building a Non-Anxious Life
Also, his website, www.johndelony.com, offers resources regarding mental health and managing anxiety.
As always, thanks for reading,
-Daniel
